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Listening To My Inner Dialogue ...


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#1 delvin

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 06:13 AM

I was sitting on the bus the other day, on the way to work, wondering why I felt so cranky. So I watched my thoughts ... pondered the streams and eddies ... felt the depths ...

There was a looming flu or something which meant a day off work .... a bit of a something in the sinuses ... but there was something else.

Then ... there it was ... somebody like my father or my little sister saying a final word ... after each thought. A distractive word ... a distractive feeling even. It was like a current under the water in my mind that was deeper than language ... more like a tone ... an annoying peace of music even ... that was hiding in behind the other notes.

They were verbal attack patterns from my childhood. At a certain point in the disease my little sister started using second rate social worker speak to incite hatred ... to stir ... to start a fight. But the content was more than just your little sister stirring ... it was nasty ... really nasty. She copied the style from my mother but the content from my father.

I don't want to go in to the content ... only to say it was camouflaged in the midst of commentary or conversation with ... someone else. As if it were the comment of a TV reporter ... summing up ... but sinister, rude, invasive ... machivellian, conniving, manipulative. It was designed to either provoke anger or to provoke shame.

When I come across people who behave this way I get very triggered ... for good reason. I usually spot pathological bullies well before other people do and the linguistic style they use to undermine and create tensions and fears that, otherwise, wouldn't be there amongst groups of people. I'm also very good at picking up on whether people are just angry or moody about something ... not necessarily pathological per se ... and I don't get 'triggered' if they are just ... bitchy about something.

I guess I'm coming to an awareness that its not that other people 'didn't get it' in my foo. They did get it ... they were all part of it ... and when I say they ... that includes a dissociated me.

I think those tricks ... that 'form' of bullying ... was just too much for me at the time ... and I just left my body ... I went somewhere else. I didn't want to believe that I was part of that soup of language ... of that soup of shame ... of those tricks to undermine and hurt the people who were closest to me ... my own family.

Today (with a day off) I was lying in bed feeling my kidneys work unpaid overtime dealing with the pigs tail end of some virus that maybe got bored with pigs and was looking for guest status ... it was pretty savage whatever it was. Anyway ... they (my kidneys) were really going in to a thumping mode as if they were hearts pumping and I felt the one on the left sort of let go of something and I felt my little sister ... how cold and cruel and mean she had become back then. I felt my little sister as part of me that was now passing, being processed (like a kidney stone ... but it wasn't a kidney stone ... believe me it wasn't a kidney stone).

Just sharing ... I don't want to make to much of it ... other than what it felt like.
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#2 DavidG

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 10:46 AM

:blink: I want more. More peace, more serenity. I know i can get what I give... by letting go.

Being on the ACA forum is more like an academy- not an academy of learning but an academy of sharing. I am picking up nuances of recovery... taking the edges off a lot of my notions and assumptions.

I pulled out a rather battered book [ a bit like battered fish ]. it was the last book Carl Jung edited and put together- "man and his symbols" not that I am big on 'depth psychology'.

For some parts of me pavlov works quite well. But not big timeout and pushing and pulling. This time too it is inward and gentle. Learning to live and enjoy eating. Taking the tastes and flavours [[morphing a little into gestalt...]]. And enjoying the associations i have with other experience.

I am taken out of a sense of crisis and tension long enough to smell flowers and hear the birds.

But I enjoy reading the Jung book. it underlines some of my recent learning and some of my current journey. This week at work i have been "attacking" one of the major sources of my triggered behaviour. Another adult child. someone I like a lot... i was the oldest child. I never really had to tell tales- I dealt with most stuff myself [or so i thought]. So I always draw around me a surrogate family which mirrors somewhat my foo.

I can snitch on myself but on others? Not really, or not at all.

it sheds light and colour on myself... on the subtle but formative changes i can make-
and make way for my self... ;)
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#3 Reborn

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 06:54 PM

I had a very unique spiritual experience in the carpark of a hospital about six months ago one night after a meeting. I was outside talking with another member of the recovery commnunity, being a newcomer to recovery talking openly with another person was a foreign concept to this person.
The conversation drifted onto the subject of his mothers death, and how he felt his life had spiralled out of control ever since that moment. In the middle of the conversation I felt the mood or the vibe of the atmosphere around us change. I then saw what looked like a cloud of mist drift / walk through my field of vision off to my left. I ignored it thinking, a comment about it would bring judgements of craziness and fear based reactions on the part of the newcomer. Then he actually commented first and said to me, what was that? I said quite calmly considering how spooked I was, I think thats what we are without our bodies. I have never seen that guy again at another meeting, too much spiritual overload. Its an experience I have shared with maybe 4 people for fear of being judged as mad. That was the day for me I moved from a deep belief in the spirit world and God and all things etherial, to a personal space of knowing.

How does that relate to beliefs of my inner child/ my true self ????? I had a reality of life handed to me as a child !!! This is normal, thats not normal this is true of that, this is true of this, on and on. Any thought , feeling or decision about my reality that I "judged" as being at odds with the mass reality I created fear of alienation and disapproval. That was enforced when I was authentic on rare occasions, by being shamed heavily. I relate that to the spirit experience in the carpark. Seeing a spirit or ghost or whatever you wish to call it is at odds with a mass reality, so I created fear related to being labelled crazy or a liar or some other alienating term.

The same is true of the thoughts and feelings of my inner child, I relate it to the mass reality and if there is a clash, I summise there to be only one course of action, Self abandonment. The spiritual life for me consists of living in a personally created reality, that enables me to live a life that is a personally crafted work of art that no other artist can create.

Edited by Reborn, 28 August 2010 - 09:19 PM.

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#4 delvin

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 01:51 PM

My inner dialogue is changing ... morphing.

I'm learning so much from the kids at work. They just come through and I'm able to play with them ... usually with a tone of voice and a music in my language that says 'I'm friendly and I'm going to make fun of everything and everybody without hurting you.'

They get it ... straight away ... they just get it and we have fun together. I get off on the fact that I have built a bridge of trust ... its like walking down the street and being able to win over the respect and affection of an intelligent dog ... I mean a real dog like a german shepherd, or a blue heeler or a staffy. Intelligent dogs make good friends ... children with five times the intelligence ... I mean real intelligence ... a feeling intelligence ... are like a warm fire to a cold heart ... they really are.

My inner dialogue is talking to a ring on the inside of my tree that relates to my father's feeling intelligence. I feel so glad to have gotten in touch with some buddhist philosophy on this because I am realising that ... because my father isn't physically me ... my relations with him or my sense of identity with him (as a boy to a man) is still (and always was) me ... if you get my drift. I craved and grasped for an identity and it is only sensible and reasonable that, as a boy, I identify with my father.

I mean ... the fact that I shut down part of myself as if that part of me was my father was really me shutting down part of me. The tricks that I used to do it (from the outer ring of my tree) were the same tricks that he used to shut himself down. So ... even the tricks I considered to be ... him ... and not me. Now thats dissociation.

Accessing these feelings means taking responsibility for the me in them. One of the tricks from the outer ring of the tree is to say 'You're an abused child' ... 'You suffered severe trauma' ... You could read that as text and it would be true but after going in to actually feel this stuff from the inside of the tree the experience of it opens up a broader perspective.

Firstly the remembering on a feeling level is horrenduos ... it bloody hurts. Its like confronting a thief in the living room rather than watching it on TV ... the return of the sense of 'smell' is quite amazing ... the feeling side of realising that it really is true is totally different from ... researching it or proffering some watertight logical argument in front of a tribunal or a court or something. It is, after all, the black hole ... all those things that the outside of the tree is adamant about looking away from ... staying externally focused so that inner rituals of non-pain can be safely played out in the external world. When they are played out in the internal world it is the same vibe but with this extra doorway feeling. There is an inner horizon ... an inner light that isn't there in the external focus. Other dopamines kick in ... other internal drugs that are longer lasting more .... comfy ... more enduring.

My father didn't have these internal drugs. My testosterone, the fires in my heart, my capacity for love ... I mean a practical, considerate love ... was mistaken by me as something to do with him. I couldn't sit inside my own skin because all I could feel when I got down below 2 metres was him ... but it isn't him ... its me ... its my perception of him that I identified with as a boy. His lack of access to his own self soothing meant he didn't plan things well. And the time out he spent being drunk after work meant that he didn't grow or learn in an emotional way. He was too busying numbing and dumbing down.

There is cultural side to this too. Men of Irish descent faced a lot of pressure (particularly via the sexual/emotional strokes of females of the same ilk) to be rather stoic and have a backpack attitude to there emotional life. Both Irish and Scot landscapes (arguably their internal landscape) were facing severe divide and conquer tactics and an external focus on money, position and playing the game of employing the language of English to feather ones own nest was a priority. There was, after all a host of colonies to colonise ... a host of unwary players to set up as scapegoats while plundering essential resources of mining and agriculture. Just pack up your scruples in your emotional kit bag and defile, defile defile ... . Employing the trickery of language along with the heartlessness of bullying and plundering was attractive to many women in the north and west of Britain - even if it was couched in the condascending psuedo-benevolence of catholicism. For generations, after all, their men and children had been starved or killed for not conforming to the feudal needs of the new empire ... so bullying men became a means to an end ... a necessary evil. But my old man was not a 'business' kind of guy ... he could bully for sure but he couldn't generate the emotional capital to flip and egg for himself let alone train his children in the value of trade and bargaining. So he was a systems man. A man who passed exams and (although having considerable whit and talent with people) saw that as the only capital there was when it came to self sufficiency. That was a form of stupidity that I resent but I am beginning to understand. He did the best he could with what he had and (in a material sense) succeeded.

I am beginning to appreciate his strengths (for he did have certain strengths) and for the lack of nurturing, support and facilities available for a man of his time ... to be able to reach in and heal. For him, everyhing was about position and money and the ability to 'refer' and prescribe. Poor bastard. Sensitive new age guy ... not. I can understand these things because I am his son ... and I loved him ... I didn't have the wisdom to love him in a practical way that he needed ... my love was too clouded ... I loved money and power like anybody else ... and the way I lovingly play with children is something that he just couldn't do ... it probably hurt him too much. He could play that with adults extremely well ... he had a wit that could light up a room ... but that also became black and awry as the alcoholism ate away at his brain cells. ... ... and he was an arsehole to his kids ... I mean why should I stop hating him every now and again just because I loved him.

I think he's still somewhere ... learning about stuff and living ... because I don't think we die ... and I think he's getting the message that I would have liked to have said to him before he died ... that I thought he was an arsehole and that I loved him.

I did love him ... but I am and always was sad that I couldn't find a way to 'play' with him or connect ... without destroying myself in the process. I couldn't do that because where it matters ... in the inner ring of the tree ... where there is a feeling intelligence ... I am just more intelligent than he was. I'm just not like him ... we just didn't connect. But I do remember loving him ... and I still do ...
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#5 Reborn

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 03:40 AM

Wow, emotional intelligence, I love that term.

Edited by Reborn, 01 September 2010 - 03:40 AM.

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#6 henry

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 03:01 PM

Tears welling with a bit reminiscent identification.
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#7 delvin

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 05:42 PM

I went to sleep the other night, after doing a bit of designing and entrepreneurialising, with a growing sense of satisfaction in how I can polish and grind away at a long term plan and stick to it ... perfect it ... and go through the painful bits of actually doing it.

I must admit to getting lost along the way all too often with long term goals in the past but things are coming together now. I'm more stable ... focused.

I wrote on a piece of paper some bits of belief and inner boundary ridings that my desperadoid inner child is underpinningly spinning with me at the moment.

The bit of paper says: The problem belief is that 'I am not one of you' ... but ...

So what comes after the but ??? ... a few things:

I played the role of scapegoat in my family and I think I genuinely mistrusted and loathed the people around me (for good reason) but ... I was one of them ... I am one of them ... that's a big deal for me to come to terms with that ... there is quite a bit of inner tussle going on around that.

I am beginning to, not just understand, but feel a connection with people I serve at work ... the public I mean. The vast majority are very nice ... they say hello by name ... I like the children ... even work colleagues are realising that I am automatically aloof and not likely to join any social club some time soon ... and they're being nice too ... especially after the last wave of bullies were defeated and sent packing with their tail between their legs.

I identified with blowing the whistle in my family ... being an outsider ... but a new need to be an 'insider' to be not so ... maverick ... is something I have been working on lately ... and it is bitter sweet ... it hurts a bit.

So ... I realise I want to experience friendship, love and intimacy (selectively, privately ... on my terms) but I think I am on the right track in recognising that I need to meet people half way to get places with that need and to be discerning and private about how I get those needs met.

One day at a time ... we'll get there ... thanks for letting me share. It's just taking time ... that's all. B)
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#8 delvin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 01:26 AM

Was ruminating on the bus, this afternoon, about this last post and a young boy (about ten) stared back down the aisle of the bus with one of those 'the future's great' looks on his face ... as he joined his Dad outside.

I started crying. The dreams I'm having lately are pointing to a renewal of a ten year old inside me who needs attending to. I'm talking to him and we need some private time to talk about things ... he has needs and there's some hurt and confusion there.

So we're going to talk about it and his need for [a] Dad. Its a good thing I have annual leave coming up next week ... we are going to need it.

I'm very tired because my sleep patterns are going a bit funny ... usually the sign of deep stuff coming up ... and generally things are going well but this hurts and I'm so glad that there is this site to share the journey. I must admit I don't know much about ten year old boys ... he does ... but I am going to have to listen to his hurt and confusion about things ... because that is where a lot of this black and white thinking comes from ... the fact that he is hurt and was betrayed ... tricked by men older than himself.

Its a tough one ... but I guess the good thing is that I'm not blaming him for feeling scared or angry about things ... he has a right to do that and its my duty to listen and provide some direction when needed ... mainly to listen.
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#9 delvin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 01:30 AM

Was ruminating on the bus, this afternoon, about this last post and a young boy (about ten) stared back down the aisle of the bus with one of those 'the future's great' looks on his face ... as he joined his Dad outside.

I started crying. The dreams I'm having lately are pointing to a renewal of a ten year old inside me who needs attending to. I'm talking to him and we need some private time to talk about things ... he has needs and there's some hurt and confusion there.

So we're going to talk about it and his need for [a] Dad. Its a good thing I have annual leave coming up next week ... we are going to need it.

I'm very tired because my sleep patterns are going a bit funny ... usually the sign of deep stuff coming up ... and generally things are going well but this hurts and I'm so glad that there is this site to share the journey. I must admit I don't know much about ten year old boys ... he does ... but I am going to have to listen to his hurt and confusion about things ... because that is where a lot of this black and white thinking comes from ... the fact that he is hurt and was betrayed ... tricked by men older than himself.

Its a tough one ... but I guess the good thing is that I'm not blaming him for feeling scared or angry about things ... he has a right to do that and its my duty to listen and provide some direction when needed ... mainly to listen.
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#10 Igiveup

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 10:00 AM

My Inner Dialogue is a continuous Fight between My Inner Child and Critical Parent..........

and I the physical Being am the bearer of much Pain as a result.

All of what has been said already i can Identify with.

Unusual Instances,......Frightning some of them.

While Driving I always ask for Protection,I also need Protection at the Job I do.

If some/regular mortal read this they would think Id lost it.
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What Someone thinks of me is none of my Buissness.

#11 delvin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 01:49 PM

Attending to My Inner Boy Who is More than Just Rebelling

I just want to share what it's like fighting an abusive psychiatrist - my critical inner parent. It's subtle ... its poisonous ... its street fighting on the astral plane. The closest technical or legal way to ... I don't know ... explicate or validate it ... is through the constructs of linguistics and logic ... especially the constructs of fallacy.

I keep revisiting this because, partly, I revel (now) in the ability toexpress it so clearly ... I was, after all, the second born who wassupposed to be the scapegoat and blow the whistle.

But beyondthat necessary work ... is a the needto attend to the boy who was there all the time. A boy whose only senseof identity was either fighting an abuser or being a victim of it.There is much more to that boy ... and he has needs ... physical needs.... emotional needs .... the need to play and prosper ... to employhis own hunt and kill faculties to rather more creative ends than wasemployed by his toxic father.

To digress ... now I'm working with feelings with some extra skills that point, technically, to how the bastard did it.

And what did he do????????? He systematically attacked the self esteem of his own children.

How did he do it????????? With banter, psuedo friendship, and the pavlovian reinforcement of emotional and physical isolation.

Why did he do it???????? He enjoyed the hunt and kill of employing those skills to do to vulnerable others what was done to him as a child. He detested the vulnerability of childhood and did everything possible to attack it. His wife also gave him one or (arguably) two extra kids that he just didn't want.

The trick, the double bind ... the mind game in his technique has to do with the reinforcement of shame and setting himself up as the judge of it in others. He got that from his family and the catholic church. He was abused by catholic priests.

Therein lies the work ahead. To integrate the need for power, play (powerplay even) in to life in a way that does not emulate the power play of my father ... a power play that, independently of any roles or conditioning ... I felt deeply ashamed of when I discovered what my father was really like in my early teens.

There is a boy (a layer of my inner child) before those teen years, who is/was simply clinging to the only example of real power available and that was the power play of my father. I really thought he was the 'good' guy and that my mother was the bad one. Intimacy, sharing and friendship was always a power play so I turned away from it because I believed it was sullied because of the powerful (powerplay) feelings I felt with friends and girls and stuff.

No matter how my father phrased things ... his banter was always about control ... a territorial sense of dominance by employing psychological tricks. His 'reasoning' or his reflection on his own feelings and that of others was simply about dominance, submission and a system of hierarchy. He wasn't just conservative ... he was a narcissistic.

I have an inner boy of ten or less ... who is reaching out to me ... who identified with these traits in my father ... and he's confused and hurt. The only fatherhood he knew betrayed and tricked him for selfish reason ... or out of simple disdain or neglect. He, my inner boy of ten or less, observes the powerplay of emotions between people but is now feeling all these 'other' new feelings ... compassion, love, an appropriate sense of empathy, the need for play, fellowship and ... god ... girls ... immigrants with differing religions and cultures ... you name it.

It is so much easier if you can boil it all down in to good and bad, like and dislike ... into power play with winners and losers. But my inner child is feeling all these other feelings now (including a pretty ferocious 'attitude'). He's calling out for a real 'parent' ... not a shallow, negligent, abusive one.

I must admit that my identification with the powerplay of my father (or even my disdain of it) has held me back from listening to and interpreting the emotional needs of my ten year old inside me ... partly because he identified with it 'as power' too ... and power is pretty cool for a ten year old ... so is money ... but it doesn't buy you love. That's what he wants ... love.

He also wants skills and practice in sharing with others. He wants to come out of his isolation WITH PROTECTION so that bullies are put in their place where and when it happens. He doesn't want sleazy spin and power play any more - its undignified. He wants to know that he is protected and that psychological bullies will be dealt with there and then ... that it stops there and then ... and that he has a hand in it.

That's what he wants.

Edited by delvin, 19 September 2010 - 01:59 PM.

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#12 delvin

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 03:13 AM

... He also wants skills and practice in sharing with others. He wants to come out of his isolation WITH PROTECTION so that bullies are put in their place where and when it happens. He doesn't want sleazy spin and power play any more - its undignified. He wants to know that he is protected and that psychological bullies will be dealt with there and then ... that it stops there and then ... and that he has a hand in it.

Please excuse my journalling traits but I really do work out a lot of stuff by typing stuff up on this marvellous site.

There is a deep tiredness coming over me and an interesting turn in my mind yesterday makes me think the tiredness may be a sort of a healing thing.

I have had this clear feeling of an inner saboteur - like the snarling grimace of a dog at my earlobe - the latest 'flavour' being of my mother quipping and snapping - and I am just listening to it and pondering on her reasonings for it ... her as a child or her as a frustrated woman.

She was a bully - lets face it ... and would snap and snarl at physical movement or any sudden expression of emotions as if she were turning around on stage to tell everyone to shut up while she dealt with her ... audience. That voice in my mind is related to her but it is part of me so I think it wise to start talking to it to find out what it wants ... why it behaves that way.

Its time for me to turn to her with the mind of an adult ... with compassion and try to understand what a lonely person she must have been to ... bully her own kids. She is expressing a need for control and power because ... I think ... she wants to play and be part of the fun. She wants to be accepted ... but she doesn't know how to share ... to play.

I guess it's my own hate that is getting in the way of understanding that because the she I speak of is a voice inside me.

Maybe I can talk to my inner child and validate his needs which weren't met (by her ... and that's an understatement) but let him know that I am going to talk to this other part of me ... this angry woman and ... even if she tries to bait ... he should stay back while I listen to her and try to understand her.

Yeah ... I think I'll go to sleep now and do that ... because this voice of the angry woman is very connected to my body to my physicality. Something that both my parents were rather unfamiliar with. They were ashamed of their bodies.

Anyway ... thanks for letting me share.
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